Bitcoin-Kritiker Peter Schiff gibt Fehleinschätzung zu

End The Banks: International Banking News

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10-21 13:15 - 'Peter Schiff Looks Like He's Screwed...' (youtube.com) by /u/BitcoinBroccoli removed from /r/Bitcoin within 2302-2312min

Peter Schiff Looks Like He's Screwed...
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Author: BitcoinBroccoli
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Peter Schiff will be hosting a live youtube session where he invites bitcoiners to 'educate' him. Be careful!

Peter Schiff will be holding his first youtube live podcast on Monday 15th of July at 9pm EST. The topic will be Bitcoin and he has invited bitcoiners to "call-in" and convince him he is wrong about bitcoin, and if he can be converted he will apparently start buying bitcoin.
He said people can call-in to educate him so its not yet clear whether the session will be conducted through the comment section or via a phone call.
Peter is a merciless debater and enjoys cutting his opponents off and talking over the top of them so this platform will not be for the faint hearted.
There is also a very high liklihood that this live stream will be used by Peter to try and showcase how many "dumb moon boi kids" are in this space allowng him to discredit us all live on air infront of his 250,000 subscribers.
This live education session will be perfect for the more technically literate and people who are good at debating and articulating their points. If this is not you please DO NOT call-in as Peter will eat you alive and make you sound foolish. For the people who know they can handle this invitation please do us proud, for the people unsure of their ability to debate Peter (like me) we can all just tune in and listen to the live stream in action.
The goal doesn't need to be to convince Peter of anything, everyones time frame is different. Our goal just needs to be to come across as smart, calm, rational and knowledgeable when talking. Peter wants to make us all look like a bunch of "ignorant moon boi children", lets not let that happen.
For those up to the challenge he asks that you research his views on Bitcoin and explain to him where and why you think he may be wrong.
This is his youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/useSchiffReport
All the best.
submitted by slvbtc to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

The Gold vs Bitcoin Debate : Anthony Pompliano vs Peter Schiff Via the Crypto Trader Youtube Channel

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wigz8z6Vm3U
submitted by Axxhole to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Peter Schiff YouTube comment on Bitcoins

Peter Schiff has made a comment on Youtube clarifying the point he made regarding Bitcoins on CNBC (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VrB1Ae3xqs)
"Why do you guys have such a problem understanding divisibility? Dividing bitcoins is not the same as dividing gold. When gold is divided, the smaller coins have less gold then the original. So the intrinsic value of each coin is reduced. No intrinsic value is lost when bitcoins are divided, as there is no intrinsic value to begin with. Yes, the full coin is valued at the sum of its parts, but that is not my point. Its the total potential supply of coins that counts. Think about it this way. Bitcoins are sold 10 million to the pack, which each buyer can then break apart into individual coins. The total limit on 10 million packages is 21 million. Do not think of one bidcoin as the 10 million dollar package. Think of that package as a 10 million bitcoin bill. When you think about it that way, how scarce are bit coins?"
I am really disappointed. I have a lot of respect for him and agree with most of his economic views, I just can't believe he can be so wrong about something so simple. He misses the point entirely.
submitted by lemonade12345 to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

02-06 19:23 - 'Peter Schiff video presentation:"฿itcoin is real money, Gold an obsolete payment system!"' (youtube.com) by /u/BlindManSleepwalking removed from /r/Bitcoin within 55-65min

Peter Schiff video presentation:"฿itcoin is real money, Gold an obsolete payment system!"
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12-14 07:02 - 'Peter Schiff Proclaims: "Bitcoin is the future of money, Gold is obsolete!" "Can't get My Gold cambi bar thru My keyboard to pay My taxes, what good is it!"' (youtube.com) by /u/BlindManSleepwalking removed from /r/Bitcoin within 128-138min

Peter Schiff Proclaims: "Bitcoin is the future of money, Gold is obsolete!" "Can't get My Gold cambi bar thru My keyboard to pay My taxes, what good is it!"
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Author: BlindManSleepwalking
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11-28 15:13 - 'Peter Schiff proclaims "฿itcoins are the future, Gold has become clumsy and obsolete"' (youtube.com) by /u/BlindManSleepwalking removed from /r/Bitcoin within 511-521min

Peter Schiff proclaims "฿itcoins are the future, Gold has become clumsy and obsolete"
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07-23 01:02 - 'Bitcoin Hater Peter Schiff's Lavish Lifestyle Spotlighted in Puerto Rico' (youtube.com) by /u/roboturner777 removed from /r/Bitcoin within 1284-1294min

Bitcoin Hater Peter Schiff's Lavish Lifestyle Spotlighted in Puerto Rico
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Bitcoin vs. Gold: The Future of Money - Peter Schiff Debates Stefan Molyneux - YouTube

Bitcoin vs. Gold: The Future of Money - Peter Schiff Debates Stefan Molyneux - YouTube submitted by bVector to NSL [link] [comments]

MicroStrategy's $425M BTC investment thesis - "buy something that can either get cut in half or 10x"

Amidst all of the DeFi volatility, drama and excitement, Bitcoin has started to seem rather boring. Its price is more or less flat to where it was a year ago and you can’t even farm Yams with it.
While some have started to view Bitcoin as a useless digital rock, someone did find an interesting use case for it. This week, more details surfaced around how MicroStrategy CEO Michael Saylor convinced the board of a publicly traded company to allocate nearly all of the company’s $500M cash position to bitcoin.
Michael Saylor
Saylor graduated from MIT in 1987 and founded Microstrategy at the age of 24. MicroStrategy is a “Business Intelligence” company, which basically creates software that allows companies to use their own data to drive decision making.
Interesting side note - Saylor, like any good 90’s internet entrepreneur, also bought a bunch of internet domains and was the guy who ultimately sold Voice.com to Block.One (EOS) for $30M.
MicroStrategy’s’ $500M Problem
To most people, having $500 million in cash doesn’t sound like a problem. Up until recently, it wasn’t for large corporations either. There was a time before the ‘08 financial crisis when the risk free rate of return on cash was 5% a year. This means a company could sit on $500M, earn $25M a year for doing nothing, and have cash on hand for a rainy day.
Fast forward to today, when the risk free rate of return has plummeted to 0.69% due to loose fiscal policies (money printer go BRRRR) alongside inflating asset prices, and it’s a different story. In Saylor’s own words, “we just had the awful realization that we were sitting on top of a $500 million ice cube that’s melting.”
Cash is Trash
So what’s a corporation to do with a $500M melting ice cube? It turns out it’s not that easy to unload half a billion dollars in a short amount of time.
You could buy back half a billion of your own company’s shares. For a company like MSTR, Saylor estimated that would take 4 years. Time MiscroStrategy didn’t have.
You could buy real estate. However, commercial real estate prices have collapsed post COVID while property owners still believe their assets are worth what they were in January. In other words, good luck getting a fair market price.
You could buy blue chip equities. Amazon, Apple, Google, Facebook. However, your risk is symmetric. They can each fall 50% just as easily as they can go up 50%.
That left Saylor with silver, gold, Bitcoin, and other alternative assets. A move the company announced it was exploring on a July earnings call.
A Bold Purchase
Saylor ultimately wanted something that could either get cut in half, or go up by a factor of 10. An investment akin to what buying Amazon or Apple in 2012 was. In other words, asymmetric risk.
As a student of technological history, Saylor observed that the winning strategy over the last ten years has been to find some kind of “digitally dominant network” that dematerializes something fundamental to society. Apple dematerialized mobile communications. Amazon dematerialized commerce. Google dematerialized the process of gathering information.
Something Saylor noted was common to all recent 10X opportunities is buying when they’ve achieved $100B+ marketcaps and are ten times the size of their next biggest competitor. As Bitcoin is the dominant digital network dematerializing money that’s 10x the size of any cryptocurrency competing to be a store-of-value (not counting ETH here), it fit the bill.
Making the purchase
With the thesis in place, the next thing Saylor had to do was get everyone at MicroStrategy to sign-off on the unorthodox decision. To do this, he simply made everyone go down the same Bitcoin rabbithole that most people in the industry have gone down.
He made everyone at the company watch Andreas Antonopoulous videos, read The Bitcoin Standard, watch Eric Vorhees debate Peter Schiff and listen to Pomp and NLW podcasts. With no strong detractors, MicroStrategy turned to execution. They first put $250M to work purchasing 21,454 BTC in August and another $175M (16,796 BTC) in September for a total $425M and 38,250 BTC.
What’s fascinating is that MicroStrategy was able to open such a large position without really moving the market or anyone even taking notice. This speaks to just how liquid of an asset BTC has become. To acquire the September tranche of BTC, Saylor disclosed that they traded continuously for 74 hours, executing 88,617 trades of .19 BTC every 3 seconds.
One for the history books
Skeptics noted that shares of MSTR have been on the downtrend since 2013, as the real reason behind MicroStrategy’s bold move. Regardless, the move has interesting implications for the company’s shareholders. As TBI observed, MicroStrategy is now both a software company and with ⅓ of its marketcap in Bitcoin, a pseudo Bitcoin ETF. At the time of writing, MSTR is up 20% on the week.
Only time will tell if history looks back on this move as a brilliant strategic decision or a massive corporate blunder. In the short term, it scores a massive win for Bitcoin’s digital gold investment thesis.
Billionaire hedge fund manager Paul Tudor Jones is in. A publicly traded corporation has made Bitcoin it’s primary treasury asset. As CFOs and fund managers around the world undoubtedly take notice, one has to wonder, who’s next?
PS - I based a lot of this article on Pomp’s interview with Michael Saylor, which I recommend giving a listen.
Original article
Source
submitted by CryptigoVespucci to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

I think I know what happened to Peter Schiff's Wallet Password, and it may be possible to restore his access

People have been discussing Peter Schiff losing access to his wallet. Unfortunately, we in the crypto community couldn't really help without more information. I just watched the following video and Peter gives details about the wallet he had:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3iFolFv4RV0&feature=youtu.be&t=460
It was a wallet set up on Blockchain.com. Fortunately I've used them on and off from the beginning so I'm fairly familiar. Peter says he'd usually "enter a PIN code" but that suddenly stopped working. That's good news. I don't know how Blockchain.com has things set up behind the scenes but it doesn't seem to me Peter's wallet (the private key part) is encrypted, because a 4-5 digit PIN would be a horrible password for such a function. The PIN I believe is really just a first line of defense, just something there if, for example, a person leaves their mobile phone laying around unlocked.
Blockchain.com started as a web based wallet. A mobile app which could be downloaded didn't become available until later. That's important because their security system wasn't structured around an app, but instead something like logging into a website with a username and password. For new accounts the site generated a "Wallet ID" which was a cryptic looking string of characters serving as a username. To access a Blockchain.com wallet a person would provide the Wallet ID and enter their password. That was it. There were additional security features which could be added but that was the default routine. At some point they also began mandating new accounts provide an email, which they sent the Wallet ID to (because many lost these IDs).
The point is the PIN for the mobile device just authenticates using the device to connect with the Blockchain.com server. If Peter still has his device and access to the email which should have been used to set up his account, and which should contain his Wallet ID, I'd say there is a >80% chance he can regain wallet access, even without knowing the backup seed phrase.
As for getting logged out of the PIN I think that's a normal security feature working as intended. It probably periodically expires or requires reset. Since Schiff takes a highly nonchalant attitude toward his Bitcoin wallet, and isn't very technical on top of that, it doesn't surprise me in the slightest that he got accidentally locked out.
submitted by cryptos4pz to btc [link] [comments]

Peter Shiff Explains Brilliantly Why Capitalism Works And Socialism Causes Misery - Money Facilitates Capitalism, But Bitcoin is Better Money for Same Underlying Reason: Human Nature

We discuss many things here and people may be familiar with certain topical keywords - taxes, capitalism, libertarian, Peter Schiff, Venezuela, socialism, privacy, choice, free markets - but many may not realize the underlying connection.
I have a gift for explaining complicated ideas in easy to understand ways. However, nobody knows everything and we all continue learning and growing as we go. I just learned something listening to Peter Schiff recently and wanted to share. It wasn't something I didn't subconsciously know, but I'd never heard it explained so clearly before. I want to give people an opportunity to learn and understand because I think many just don't know how to make the lives of ordinary people better, which should be a common goal for us.
We've just hit 2020 which means an election year in the United States. A big theme in the country now is how middle of the road politics are no longer sufficient to make people happy. The country is being pressured to move more extremely left or right, meaning toward more freedom and less government or the opposite, less freedom and more government. I wished someone had explained this to me earlier so I'll try to do so for others.
To understand the difference between political left and right think of a line representing how free people are. On the furthest left of the line people are the least free. Think of communism and places like North Korea where the government has nearly complete control over nearly all aspects of lives; there is no free press, and people heasee only what the gov allows. On the furthest right people are the most free they can be, and in fact there is no government at all. That's called anarchy and Roger Ver, I believe, is an anarchist. America, after leaving Britain, started as anarchist. There was no federal government, but later libertarians, which are slightly more toward the left on the line, created the Constitution and federal government.
What does this all have to do with Bitcoin? I'm getting to that. I'm covering all this because people worldwide are struggling, but many just don't know how to make things better. This post here explains the answer. It also explains how Bitcoin (Cash) is part of that answer.
So an age old debate came down to which system of government makes people happiest? One where they are very free or one where there is a government managing everything for them? If we look at countries that have achieved the most in terms of average quality of life, advancements in human knowledge and achievement it's not even close. The free situations win easily.
Yet with all that factual history people still even today question whether capitalism is a preferable system to socialism which is a close relative to communism. Why is this? Peter breaks it down wonderfully. In essence he explains the fundamental argument for why socialism should work is beautiful. People want it to be true. That argument is: people will work harder for others than they work for themselves. That's a beautiful sounding thought, but that isn't the reality.
Capitalism works because people, ALL people, for the most part care most about themselves. That's not a bad thing. It's just reality. It doesn't mean people don't also care for others, it's about priorities. Capitalism works because it deals with the reality that people prioritize themselves first.
The key thing I learned, however, is that even though capitalism should be preferred because taxation is theft, which alone should elevate it morally, there is something else: capitalism actually does care for others, and it does this better. Listen to Peter explain how:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VbGBMVb6Fnk&feature=youtu.be&t=1018
Listen 17:00 to 25:00
Getting back to Bitcoin. The reason Bitcoin helps solve world problems is it aligns with the reality people prioritize their own interests first. Bitcoin (Cash) is being designed to allow people to control the most wealth they can. It does this by seeking the lowest fees. It does this by making it hard for people to lose from theft, whether illegal (using things like hardware wallets) or legal theft in the form of taxes (using things like strong privacy features). All this is about working with human nature as it actually is, not how we wish it could be. In doing so we actually make the situation better, via capitalism, for everyone around us too, because that's how capitalism works.
submitted by cryptos4pz to btc [link] [comments]

FYI: Today @ 5pm EST Peter Schiff will debate a Bitcoiner on CNBC (I don't know who). Can someone who has the equipment please capture it?

Cheers!
submitted by Logical007 to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Just a Quick Note on the Price

Hey all!
This post isn't really for the older school, die-hard Bitcoin people. It's for people more newecurious, maybe even older but unsure of things on days like today when the price drops significantly. I've been intending to write a proper article on Bitcoin volatility, because I do think it's an area of concern, especially if not properly prepared for. In lieu of having time to get a full article out, though, I wanted to post this in case it helps someone. :)
I was also inspired to post because I just watched this conference video and volatility was a topic. I thought I should check Reddit's "online now" with the price drop now happening. Sure enough, they're higher. So again, this is for people who at times like this are looking for indication about "what the heck is going on with Bitcoin, what will the future be?!"
The short answer is, nobody knows. People can speculate about why the price swings one direction or another, and the truth may be some, none or all reasons given. It all depends. However, the only thing that really matters, at least for most people, is probably the key question: is this the end, is the price going to zero? Of course, many may have that question because many don't understand everything about Bitcoin. In short, no, the price isn't going to zero. It probably never will in any sense of near term, where the near term is say 100 years. The reason is because there are only two ways that might be expected to happen. One is the technology itself becomes irreparably flawed/broken. It should go without saying that likelihood is highly unlikely. The biggest worry, in terms of unknowns, is undesirable "forking" of the coin, but even then that historically results in overall price gains total (both forks). The second is a better money system replacing Bitcoin. That, by now, is again highly unlikely, since if there was something obviously better we'd have heard of it by now.
So, given we can be confident a zero price won't happen, and we know in terms of adoption Bitcoin is probably at most five-ish percent of where it could ultimately be, and we know with significant adoption, say even a modest 20%, the price per coin would be far, far, far above zero, the only thing left to determine is where the price is day to day. That's what the market is trying to figure out; and swings are just part of that process, until the market is large enough to stabilize. This can be annoying, but also an opportunity (something my article will cover). Therefore, wise advice I think is to not think in terms of dollar price at this stage, but in terms of how many coins out of 21 million the goal is to own for when 20% or more people have adopted Bitcoin. Viewed this way it becomes quickly obvious many Bitcoiners would LOVE a price drop all the way to $5 per coin. This is what naysayers like Peter Schiff don't get. They would be declaring the end they'd always predicted on such a plunge, never realizing a zero price point would never materialize, probably not even for the BTC version of Bitcoin which I, as a BCH supporter, don't believe in. There is a not insignificant number of people who will never sell, no matter what, and many more who want a good portion of 21M. It doesn't take that many people.
Just food for thought! :)
submitted by cryptos4pz to btc [link] [comments]

Bitcoin Critic Peter Schiff Wins a Bet for a Gold Coin About Interest Rates - He Predicted Correctly 7 Months Into Future

TL;DR: Schiff won a bet made January 20, 2019 about interest rates which were lowered today for the first time since 2008.
Video Proof: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZFWL4FLic4
Many have seen the name Peter Schiff crop up around cryptocurrency forums, mostly related to his steadfast belief crypto can't work. People may wonder why he's important. The title is the reason.
While most here would disagree with Peter Schiff on Bitcoin, many (like myself) completely agree with him on other things, like politics, economics, and central banks and their policies. What just happened today demonstrates, in impressive fashion, why people like Schiff (economic adviser to Ron Paul's 2008 presidential campaign) command respect.
What Happened
The U.S. Federal Reserve embarked on unprecedented monetary policy in response to the Great Recession of 2008, lowering interest rates and pumping money into the system to avert a further drop in economic activity. The head of the Fed at the time, Ben Bernanke, gave no indication he saw the collapse coming in contrast to people like Peter Schiff (and others like Mike Maloney) who warned a large economic problem was coming soon. In other words, Peter went against mainstream beliefs at the time.
Peter just won a bet today doing the same thing. Making today's news is the announcement the Federal Reserve will cut interest rates. It's significant for two reasons. First, it's the first time this has happened since 2008, over ten years ago! Second, as recently as the beginning of the year not only did nobody expect the Fed to cut rates in 2019, they expected the opposite, rate hikes and more than one hike. Peter's bet was the equivalent of betting on a horse given the worst odds in a race, but ending up winning.
Additionally, Peter gave his thoughts about gold prices. At that time in January gold was at about $1,280 per ounce. The panelist Peter bet against said he believed gold would go down in the coming months to around $1,000. Peter, however, said he thought that it was a slim likelihood gold would go back down to $1,000 and even slim it would go below $1,200. He was right again. Today gold is just over $1,400 per ounce.
Follow Peter Schiff here: https://www.youtube.com/useSchiffReport
submitted by cryptos4pz to btc [link] [comments]

Just a Quick Note on the Price

Hey all!
This post isn't really for the older school, die-hard Bitcoin people. It's for people more newecurious, maybe even older but unsure of things on days like today when the price drops significantly. I've been intending to write a proper article on Bitcoin volatility, because I do think it's an area of concern, especially if not properly prepared for. In lieu of having time to get a full article out, though, I wanted to post this in case it helps someone. :)
I was also inspired to post because I just watched this conference video and volatility was a topic. I thought I should check Reddit's "online now" with the price drop now happening. Sure enough, they're higher. So again, this is for people who at times like this are looking for indication about "what the heck is going on with Bitcoin, what will the future be?!"
The short answer is, nobody knows. People can speculate about why the price swings one direction or another, and the truth may be some, none or all reasons given. It all depends. However, the only thing that really matters, at least for most people, is probably the key question: is this the end, is the price going to zero? Of course, many may have that question because many don't understand everything about Bitcoin. In short, no, the price isn't going to zero. It probably never will in any sense of near term, where the near term is say 100 years. The reason is because there are only two ways that might be expected to happen. One is the technology itself becomes irreparably flawed/broken. It should go without saying that likelihood is highly unlikely. The biggest worry, in terms of unknowns, is undesirable "forking" of the coin, but even then that historically results in overall price gains total (both forks). The second is a better money system replacing Bitcoin. That, by now, is again highly unlikely, since if there was something obviously better we'd have heard of it by now.
So, given we can be confident a zero price won't happen, and we know in terms of adoption Bitcoin is probably at most five-ish percent of where it could ultimately be, and we know with significant adoption, say even a modest 20%, the price per coin would be far, far, far above zero, the only thing left to determine is where the price is day to day. That's what the market is trying to figure out; and swings are just part of that process, until the market is large enough to stabilize. This can be annoying, but also an opportunity (something my article will cover). Therefore, wise advice I think is to not think in terms of dollar price at this stage, but in terms of how many coins out of 21 million the goal is to own for when 20% or more people have adopted Bitcoin. Viewed this way it becomes quickly obvious many Bitcoiners would LOVE a price drop all the way to $5 per coin. This is what naysayers like Peter Schiff don't get. They would be declaring the end they'd always predicted on such a plunge, never realizing a zero price point would never materialize, probably not even for the BTC version of Bitcoin which I, as a BCH supporter, don't believe in. There is a not insignificant number of people who will never sell, no matter what, and many more who want a good portion of 21M. It doesn't take that many people.
Just food for thought! :)
submitted by cryptos4pz to Bitcoincash [link] [comments]

bitcoin versus gold: honest comparison, please respectfully comment/add missing so I will update the topic

Inspired by debate of Anthony Pompliano with Peter Schiff https://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=Wigz8z6Vm3U
Common properties:
- scarcity
- store of value
- can be used as money
- counterfeit-resistant
Bitcoin advantages:
- bitcoin can not be confiscated, while gold can
- bitcoin is easy to transfer (especially in the future L2 solutions), gold is too expensive to divide it to smaller parts
- bitcoin does not exist nowhere else in the universe, while there is an asteroid which contains a huge amount of gold, if mined gold from it and brought it to earth gold price will decrease
- bitcoin is not a bubble, because it has always overperformed its previous major all time highs, many times (four)
- bitcoin is constantly improving, by developing both on 1-st layer and 2-nd
- in the future people will believe that it has a value, like 30 years ago people did not want to pay to software, they said software is nothing, while today it worth probably more than anything else.
- people can invest in bitcoin anonimously
- bitcoin is programmable
- young generation is open to digital currencies, so bitcoin will be used more and more in the long term
Gold advantages:
- gold is unique, cannot be repeated, while bitcoin can be forked/regenerated
- gold has special physical properties which are used in jewelry, medicine, electronics etc.
- gold can be converted to crypto, and used as money, but custodian, 3-rd party trust needed
- gold is virtually indestructible
- gold has many years of proven history, it is a kind of brand in which people strongly believed.
- the usage of gold easy/trivial to understand for everyone, while private/public keys of bitcoin are still hard and not natural for average grandma (or sometimes even for an average consumer)
submitted by vakashic to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Someone school Peter Schiff.

Peter Schiff thinks bitcoin is nothing like email for money because according to him "when email came out it was so much better than using the post office and thats why it worked". But apparently bitcoin is not better than banks because no one uses bitcoin and you cant find anywhere to spend your bitcoin.
Can someone please tell him that when email was first used it required command line unix skills and no one else had an email address so there was no one else to email. When it was first used it was far harder than using traditional mail services, yet it still scaled and gained adoption over time until one day it was the better option and thats when everyone finally onboarded so there were other people to finally email.
Bitcoin is the same, initially far harder to use than banks with no one else to use it with but this will not always be the case. One day it will be easier to use and considered the better option and everyone will then accept it in payment.
Peter thinks that because bitcoin is not already the superior option it never will be. This is the level of ignorance he posesses all while having the arrogance to sit for three hours on youtube live, picking comments, disregarding facts and then spewing his "opinion" without any form of rebuttal whatsoever.
Someone tried to tell him how data can be immutably embedded in the bitcoin blockchain and Peters response was that he trusts youtube to store data more than a blockchain.
Listen to this guy at your own risk when it comes to bitcoin.
submitted by slvbtc to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

Peter Schiff Comments on Bitcoin as a Store of Value, Bitcoin ETF and Other Observances From Last Week's SALT conference in Las Vegas, NV

If you did not attend last week's SALT Conference in Las Vegas, be sure to have a listen to libertarian economist and businessman Peter Schiff's latest podcast. He has some very interesting observations with respect to the involvement of big financial firms in the Bitcoin space. Particularly interesting in this podcast was how in a supposed collusion, the big financial firms had the same talking points with respect to Bitcoin as a store of value. To counter idea of how can Bitcoin Core be a store of value if there is no underlying utility, there was an absurd claim that gold has been used quite successfully as store of value throughout history and has no underlying utility. They were inferring that a underlying utility is not required to have a store of value!

The podcast is quite long, but the observations and commentary are worth listening to.
submitted by ted-kal to btc [link] [comments]

Good videos for technical and long-form debates?

https://youtu.be/q8R71WGO3qUSay what you will about this video and the people debating (Peter Schiff and Erik Voorhees) , but this was uploaded a year ago now and I was hoping to find some more recently edit: recorded\* debates between institutional investors and crypto evangelists/innovators.
Anyone have some good videos where there are more longer-form debates about crypto vs institutional fiat?
Thanks!
edit2: Debate between Katie Haun and Paul KraugmanJust found this, be careful cause the audio in the first couple minutes leaves something to be desired.
edit3: Peter Schiff vs Saifedean AmmousAnother I just found and listened for a bit. The production quality is rather amateur, but in-case you wanted more Peter Schiff, here ya go
edit4: Peter Schiff debates Bitcoin w/ Barry Silbert at 2019 SALT ConferenceMore professional presentation done only 3 weeks ago according to the upload date
submitted by SolarDensity to CryptoCurrency [link] [comments]

Takeaways from Vorhees-Schiff debate

If you haven't seen the most recent SOHO forum debate over bitcoin with Erik Vorhees and Peter Schiff, it was entertaining, but you're not missing much: it was a near repeat of both their arguments from a prior debate a few years back, and all the points were mere regurgitations of popular (but lacking) arguments for their respective commodity.
The silver lining is that there's still things we can learn or refresh our memories on. One of them is that (while Schiff is getting old and is stubborn in his refusal to see logic and reason regarding cryptocurrencies) he actually, unwittingly, made what I consider to be the most salient point for bitcoin, and which is so rarely understood (which even Erik fails to recognize and utilize): at about 54:15, Schiff starts to talk about how gold is no longer circulating and being used, to a high degree, as money, and that it's price and value reflect that; that it's price would be higher (and more stable) if it were circulating as money, and that it's current price reflects the value derived from it's non-monetary uses (such as jewelry, electronics, etc.). And Peter is absolutely correct here, and it actually undermines, somewhat, his argument for the superiority of gold over cryptos.
So why is this significant? Because it goes back to Carl Menger and The Origins of Money, where he gave us one of the most important and largely correct theories of the origin and nature of market-based money and how it develops on a market; his one major flaw in understanding, being that gold as money has it's exchange value backed exclusively by it's non-monetary uses or utility. To Menger, there was nothing else: he could only see the token, the unit or weight of gold as being the good. Menger had not yet fully internalized the abstract nature of goods and services and as such, had not conceived of what we now call "network goods", of which money is the prime example; the ultimate network good.
See, when a commodity becomes a money, the "good" ceases to be the thing that can be eaten or turned into jewelry or used as some other capital; the "good" becomes the service of having a medium of indirect exchange (alleviating inefficiencies of barter or trust-based credit systems), as well as a store of value and a unit of account. The good of money, being wholly separate from the good of serviceability to some other end (such as in making jewelry or having a status symbol, as are some of the non-monetary "goods" of gold). In mainstream economics, this is actually a well-known and synthesized idea. . . but unfortunately among many Austrian's, Menger's error has continued to cast a pall over the concept of money, and what can be good money; it has cast unnecessary doubt on cryptocurrencies and lead to trust for too long in inferior "barbaric relics" like gold, which (while having served faithfully as a market money) ultimately lacked the properties to avoid confiscation and de-monitization by the modern state, and so are no longer suitable for use as money in a free society (at least, not so long as the threat of statism looms).
In fact, what Schiff does here is also inadvertently expose something that I've written a lot about but is unfortunately still not widely understood (and Vorhees here even fails to bring it in to play, which would have more thoroughly and quickly dealt with Schiff's contentions): that there are large hurdles to a money developing on the market; that proto-money commodities face coordination problems (assurance and free-riding); and that non-monetary uses (such as gold has) are a stepping-stone or a help to a proto-money commodity, in overcoming these coordination problems; in getting an initial distribution which is wide enough and liquid enough, such that the token's good monetary properties (e.g. scarcity, divisibility, fungibility, transportability) can take over; that non-monetary uses are at best a component of a commodity money's value/exchange price. . . not the composite; that once ensconced as unit-of-account money, a token need not rely on or fall-back on a much lower non-monetary exchange value (as even this drop would completely undermine it's serviceability as money and thus is logically not a psychological backstop) and that we need not logically regress the value of a money back infinitely; but that the value of money references the utility of the service. . .the network good of the monetary system as a whole and one's share of that. It is also likely that once ensconced as money, the demand (and supply) foof a commodity for non-monetary purposes, is, if anything, a destabilizing effect on it's moneyness; a liability. . . and this is why we understand that bitcoin has a more daunting prospect than gold, in terms of becoming a fully actualized money; but once ensconced as such; has the properties which would make it a much better money than gold could ever be.
Finally, as one last critique of Vorhees performance (which handily destroy's Schiff, but still he could do better and lay this all out, if only to keep his rhetoric fresh): when Schiff criticizes the extended period for which bitcoin has floundered around in short-term-speculative price discovery; Vorhees fails to take account of how damaging already existing government interventions have been (and also government's lack of enforcement of property rights surrounding bitcoin thefts and ownership), as the proto-money has struggled to gain sufficient transactional network effects. The primary culprit here being the tax classification in the U.S.: nobody can expect any market-based proto-money to succeed, when government makes the tracking and reporting requirements of using it as an everyday currency so daunting, that only the most idealogically-driven (or those where government money has completely failed) will ever adopt it as their currency.
Anyhow, I'll stop my rambling there. Hopefully this has been a helpful and interesting commentary for some of you or at least a good refresher on what's going on, economically, with bitcoin and cryptocurrencies in general; hopefully this helps people to see beyond first-order causes and effects and understand more intimately how markets and the state work in regards to the single most important good in the economy: money.
submitted by kwanijml to GoldandBlack [link] [comments]

The one flaw I see in Peter Schiff's argument against Bitcoin on the latest JRE podcast.

Peter Schiff was a guest on the latest Joe Rogan Experience Podcast and spent some time toward the end talking about Bitcoin (~2:13.16). His biggest beef seems to be that Bitcoin simply cannot succeed as a currency because it simply has no value of itself -- it has no practical uses, and no protection as currency through fiat. He said the only thing it had going for it was the ease of use in digital commerce, but that gold was catching up with companies that will now let you load up pre-paid debit cards with the value of an amount of gold stored in vaults anywhere around the globe, and you can take ownership of that gold at any time.
Those vaults, however, are the vulnerability. They act as a valve that a government can use to enforce compliance. If you are Wikileaks, for example, and you're relying on gold in this way to fund yourself, a government can use that valve to cut off the funding. This is the value of Bitcoin. Eventually (ignoring the problem with exchanges to local currencies for the moment), through further adoption and acceptance, Bitcoin becomes a way to transfer value from point to point without going through any single valve that can be shut off. It has no physical form, and cannot be physically confiscated by anyone. That is its intrinsic value.
I've understood this for a while now, but it wasn't until I heard Peter Schiff talking about this gold debit card like it was different from anything else we currently have that it really sunk in and I could finally articulate it. I really like what he has to say for the most part, but on this one point we differ greatly.
submitted by spectyr to Bitcoin [link] [comments]

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Bitcoin vs Gold with Peter Schiff - YouTube

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